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Trumpocalypse Now - Page 199

post #9901 of 9924

If Milo still speaks at CPAC, conservatives have officially lost their minds.  


It should be obvious that he'll be dropped, but Donald "Grab 'em by the pussy" Trump is the president and his approval ratings among conservatives are pretty good right now.  All bets are off.


EDIT: Actually, I'm calling bullshit on my own post.  Now that I'm thinking more on past CPAC gatherings, I'm remember that actual white supremacist groups have been allowed to set up tables.  Anti-Muslim and homophobic people speak all the time about those very subjects.  CPAC has always been a shitty of hodgepodge of "these things make liberals angry, hence, they're awesome."  Milo makes liberals angry, which is likely all that will matter in the end.

Edited by Iron Maiden - Yesterday at 8:50 pm
post #9902 of 9924
post #9903 of 9924
CPAC is basically where you meet 4chan in person.
post #9904 of 9924
post #9905 of 9924

Milo's full response is here:


8. I shouldn't have used the word "boy" when I talked about those relationships between older men and younger gay men. (I was talking about my own relationship when I was 17 with a man who was 29. The age of consent in the UK is 16.) That was a mistake. Gay men often use the word "boy" when they refer to consenting adults. I understand that heterosexual people might not know that, so it was a sloppy choice of words that I regret. 


No, Milo, you specifically talked about 13-year-olds.  We have the tape.  Nice try, though.

post #9906 of 9924
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post

From the people who brought you dynamic scoring:



Alternative math!


I swear that before 2020 we'll have the USDA advocating watering our crops with energy drinks.


"It's what plants crave!"

post #9907 of 9924

The FEC has been toothless for a long time now.  The money simply isn't there, and it sure as hell isn't coming under Trump's rule.  And, now, Ann Ravel is stepping down:



Major campaign finance violations “are swept under the rug and the resulting dark money has left Americans uninformed about the sources of campaign spending,” a Federal Election Commission member wrote in a scathing report released with her resignation letter.


Ann Ravel, an FEC member appointed to the six-member regulatory panel in 2013 by former President Barack Obama, said the commission’s routine deadlocked votes are sending clear signals that campaign finance laws won’t be enforced.


“This incredibly significant Commission is not performing the job that Congress intended, and violators of the law are given a free pass,” Ravel wrote in “Dysfunction and Deadlock,” a 25-page report released with her resignation letter to President Donald Trump. “Because of this, candidates and committees are aware that they can ignore the laws enacted to protect the integrity of our elections.”


The report by Ravel’s office, subtitled “The Enforcement Crisis at the Federal Election Commission Reveals the Unlikelihood of Draining the Swamp,” noted that the panel’s three Republican commissioners had voted together 98 percent of the time in cases closed since 2015. The three-member GOP bloc “routinely thwarts, obstructs, and delays action on the very campaign finance laws its members were appointed to administer,” she said.


In her resignation letter, Ravel asked Trump to live up to his campaign promises of “draining the swamp” by curbing the influence of money in politics.


I can't say I followed Ravel particularly close, but many activists I follow on Twitter are really sad to see her go.

post #9908 of 9924

I went to the Trump rally in Melbourne, FL. ... I wanted to understand how people can support such a president when he's already proven to be so bad at his job.


Boy are we screwed ...


One of the people introducing Trump, said he had accomplished more in 30 days than Obama did in 8 years. He credited the death of Fidel Castro to Trump!!!


Poor Melania was brought on stage to *READ* the Lord's Prayer, which she doesn't seem to be much familiar with.


And then Trump. Aside from Sweden, he gave his usual idiotic speech. I was next to the media box, there was a guy in front of me that on cue, when Trump started talking about the media would yell LIARS at the top of this lungs. Mind, you these media people were the nicest people. When old people were fainting, and a lot of them were (yes, it was a very old and very white crowd), they were pointing to the airport/security people where those fainting were so they could attend to them.


At the end of the rally, a crowd gathered in front of the media box. Yelling "Tell the TRUTH", and fake news, etc. But these people really seemed to be doing this to make it on TV, which I found super ironic. If you hate the media, why are you so excited to be on their channels?


What I sensed is, Trump is just an excuse for these people to lash out at all the progressive causes pushed in the last 8 years. After the event, in front of the anti-Trump protesters there was a guy yelling "HEY I WANT TO MARRY A FROG. I WANT TO GO TO ANY BATHROOM. SEE HOW THAT WORKS?" over and over. 


Old people were talking about how the young don't respect their elders anymore. One of them said, that wouldn't happen with their kids, because she could spank them ... but that today that would be child abuse.


I saw a co-worker who was a bit embarrassed I saw her there. She told me she only voted for him because he was a "business guy", like Romney. She took her child and was worried about anything inappropriate being said (he's 8), I gave her a look like "Have you seen this guy speak before?". She had no idea about any of the terminology being used; what they meant by "snowflakes", who the 2 youtube black Trump supporter ladies where, etc. Unlike most of the crowd, she's a lot more affluent, but she had this look of being there but knowing that it's all wrong. Fascinating.


I watched this older lady yell at young protesters (looked college age) yelling at them "GET OFF MY DIME! GET OFF MY DIME!" ... she didn't look like she paid much in taxes. I was wondering why she assumed these kids were on welfare, and almost asked her. Rest of the Trump people were yelling at protesters "WE WON, YOU LOST". Nothing on policy or anything like that. Again this feels like payback. One yelled "We're in CHARGE NOW".


I felt like an episode of Star Trek, visiting some alien culture while trying not the break the Prime Directive. I came out with a better understanding of Trump supporters, but alarmed that nothing will change the mind of the hard core ones.


This nation is in crisis.

post #9909 of 9924
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post

I watched this older lady yell at young protesters (looked college age) yelling at them "GET OFF MY DIME! GET OFF MY DIME!" ... she didn't look like she paid much in taxes. I was wondering why she assumed these kids were on welfare, and almost asked her. Rest of the Trump people were yelling at protesters "WE WON, YOU LOST". Nothing on policy or anything like that. Again this feels like payback. One yelled "We're in CHARGE NOW".


Thanks for the report.  Very interesting and, sadly, unsurprisingly disheartening.


MSNBC host Joy Reid had a wonderful response to a Trump supporter weirdly complaining about welfare earlier today:


Trump doesn't pay taxes.  Most Trump supporters look beyond that and still find a way to complain about welfare.  It's bizarre, but so is everything lately.



post #9910 of 9924

Felix Sater is a name that popped up a bit in the 2016 election thread.  He was a mafia-linked guy who got in business with Trump after getting caught in a huge securities fraud scheme.  Trump said in a 2013 sworn testimony that he couldn't even pick Sater out of a lineup.  Here's some initial reporting:



But Sater and his business partners had an idea: They would build Trump towers in U.S. cities and across the former Soviet bloc. Sater pitched it to Trump, who gave Sater’s company rights to explore projects in Moscow as well as in Florida and New York.


“Anybody can come in and build a tower,” Sater told potential investors, according to testimony in a 2008 court case. “I can build a Trump Tower, because of my relationship with Trump.”


Sater’s “Trump card,” as he called it, didn’t work everywhere. The Moscow deal fell apart. But their relationship continued — though just how close they were is now in dispute.


Trump has repeatedly said he barely remembers Sater. In sworn testimony in 2013, Trump said he wouldn’t recognize Sater if they were sitting in the same room. In an interview last year with the Associated Press, he said, “Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it.”


Sater, in previously unreported sworn testimony reviewed by The Washington Post, described a closer relationship.


Sater said he popped into Trump’s office frequently over a six-year period to talk business. He recalled flying to Colorado with Trump and said that Trump once asked him to escort his children Donald Jr. and Ivanka around Moscow.


Sater’s account, which came during a deposition in a libel case Trump brought against a book author, offers new insights into Trump’s relationship with a complicated figure.


I bring this up because we got some new-ish reporting tonight on Sater not longer after learning about his involvement with a supposed peace plan between Ukraine and Russia:



After Sater got busted, somehow he managed to offer his services to the FBI and supposedly the CIA to work on their behalf purchasing stinger missiles and other weapons on the then wild and free-wheeling Russian black market. Whatever Sater was doing for the CIA in the black market arms smuggling world seems to have become much more important after 9/11 - thus Sater's high value to the US government.


I know that sounds all but incredible. The details of Sater's alleged work for the CIA are contained in this September 2012 article in The Miami Herald. A good bit of the story emerges from an account by Sater's accomplice, Salvatore Lauria. Lauria was Sater's accomplice in the pump and dump scheme and was also there the night he stabbed the guy in the face at the bar. And yes, we'll hear more from him in a moment. Because was also involved with Sater and Trump in the Trump SoHo building project.




As I said, we don't know for certain whether the story of arms smuggling work for the CIA is true. Read the Miami Herald article and the Times article and make your own judgments. What we do know is that federal law enforcement went to amazing lengths to secure Sater's assistance and protect him. And in various of the articles I'm linking here there are clues in federal court transcripts which make it seem highly likely that Sater was doing something for the US government of that level of seriousness. The adjudication of the securities fraud case against Sater was handled entirely in secret and Sater's sentencing was delayed for more than a decade. When he was finally sentenced in 2009, he was fined $25,000 and received no jail time. He was also not required to make restitution despite losses totaling $40 million. 


It gets weirder:



Let's review. Sater is a Russian emigrant who was jailed for assault in the mid-90s and then pulled together a major securities fraud scheme in which investors lost some $40 million. He clearly did something for the US government which the feds found highly valuable. It seems likely, though not certain, that it involved working with the CIA on something tied to the post-Soviet criminal underworld. Now Bayrock and Trump come into the mix.


According to Sater's Linkedin profile, Sater joined up with Bayrock in 1999 - in other words, shortly after he became involved with the FBI and CIA. (The Times article says he started up with Bayrock in 2003.) In a deposition, Trump said he first came into contact with Sater and Bayrock in the early 2000s. The Trump SoHo project was announced in 2006 and broke ground in November of that year. In other words, Sater's involvement with Bayrock started soon after he started working with the FBI and (allegedly) the CIA. Almost the entire period of his work with Trump took place during this period when he was working for the federal government as at least an informant and had his eventual sentencing hanging over his head. 


What about Salvatore Lauria, Sater's accomplice in the securities swindle?


He went to work with Bayrock too and was also closely involved with managing and securing financing for the Trump SoHo project. The Times article I mentioned in my earlier post on Trump SoHo contains this ...


"Mr. Lauria brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians “in favor with” President Vladimir V. Putin, according to a lawsuit against Bayrock by one of its former executives. The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a “strategic partner,” along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt."


All sounds totally legit, doesn't it?


But there's more!, as they say.


Keep reading:



During the time Sater was working for Bayrock and Trump he organized what was supposed to be Trump Tower Ft Lauderdale. The project was announced in 2004. People paid in lots of money but the whole thing went bust and Trump finally pulled out of the deal in 2009. Lots of people who'd bought units in the building lost everything. And they sued.


So far it's your typical Trump story of small investors screwed out of their money and winding up in court. But this time there was a key difference. Someone leaked documents to the plaintiffs detailing Sater's criminal record and his conviction for securities fraud. The investors argued, quite reasonably, that they never would have invested in Trump Tower Fort Lauderdale if they had known that the key executive organizing the project had been convicted of cheating investors out of $40 million. The federal government had prevented them from learning this information by keeping the securities fraud case secret. This sparked a highly complex and dramatic legal case in which the federal government used all the full force of its need to protect national security in defense of keeping Sater's crimes secret. For this part of the story, the plaintiffs efforts to loop the federal government into their suit against the organizers of the Florida building project, see this article from The Miami Herald.


What does this all mean? I wish I knew, frankly.


It seems highly likely that Sater has deep and longstanding ties to at least certain elements of US law enforcement and intelligence. It's clear he worked on their behalf in some capacity and seems quite likely, though not certain, that he aided the US in purchasing black market weapons in Russia and/or Central Asia as a way to skate on his fraud conviction. One could definitely argue that his work in that role - basically being a US operative, in some sense - runs counter to any theory that Sater is some agent of the Russian government or in any way a conduit for Russia capital or advancing Russian interests with Trump. But Sater clearly has many masters or rather works with a bewildering cast of characters in the interests of saving his own neck. So anything is possible. If nothing else, the CIA/arms smuggling story, if true, would suggest he was quite plugged in with the Russian and post-Soviet criminal underworld. So there are many possibilities.


Sater's involvement with various groups goes far beyond anything I thought possible.  Any other president and this Sater story would be enough for a big investigation, even if it didn't amount to a whole lot.  I'm not sure what to make of it, but I have so many questions.

Edited by Iron Maiden - Yesterday at 11:32 pm
post #9911 of 9924

The solution might have to be for 2018 and 2020.


Bolster defences in states that were close (New Hampshire, Minnesota, Colorado, Nevada and so on.)


Throw everything at states that can be won back (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania are the top of the list of those.)


Then go on a sliding scale depending on the chances of the rest.


As for the ones that there's no chance - since trying to help them doesn't seem to register at all (remarks like more done in 30 days under the new 'regime than the last 8 years'of someone who wasn't actually a complete maniac ... honestly, people who say that seem beyond help), maybe try the reverse. Start taking stuff away and make it clear that it's going to blue states from now on. Prove your a blue state by becoming one first and then start getting stuff. Financial and other pain really has a way of focussing people's attention. Enough carrot, now stick.


I do get that red states have regions of blue and even large parts for some of them and this approach sounds especially vicious (as well as hurting those people on your side with the misfortune of being in a red state) but it might have to be a save what you can operation for the next four years lest you lose everyone. Losing again in 2020 could make a bad situation so many orders of magnitude worse.

post #9912 of 9924

I wanted to make this post separate about Felix Sater because the other one was getting too big:


Sater was involved with meeting a member of the Ukrainian parliament to start peace talks that would involve Russia keeping territory it seized in 2014 and lifting Russian sanctions.  I'm pretty sure someone else already linked to this news prior, but the Sater involvement is getting more suspicious by the hour.


That article from The Washington Post is a follow-up on the initial reporting from The New York Times.  Michael Cohen's story has changed from what he told the Times:



The Washington Post published a follow-up to the Times story about an hour ago. Most of it tracks with the Times reporting. But Cohen changed his story from what he'd told the Times. He told the Times that he received the 'peace plan' from Sater and the Ukrainian parliamentarian in a sealed envelope and delivered it to the White House. Now he claims that he received the envelope with the 'peace plan' but accepted it only as a courtesy and never did anything with it. The meeting, he now claims, lasted a mere 15 minutes.


From the Post ... 


"But Cohen said he did not take the envelope to the White House and did not discuss it with anyone. He called suggestions to the contrary “fake news.”


“I acknowledge that the brief meeting took place, but emphatically deny discussing this topic or delivering any documents to the White House and/or General Flynn,” Cohen said. He said he told the Ukrainian official that he could send the proposal to Flynn by writing him at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave."


And here's the Times on the Cohen's changes:



The Times confirmed to the Post that it sticks by its story. “Mr. Cohen told The Times in no uncertain terms that he delivered the Ukraine proposal to Michael Flynn’s office at the White House. Mr. Sater told the Times that Mr. Cohen had told him the same thing,” Matt Purdy of the Times told the Post.

Edited by Iron Maiden - Yesterday at 11:41 pm
post #9913 of 9924

If you can't remember exactly who Michael Cohen is, no worries.  Here's a reminder:




And, to sum up, Trump hired Sater to help get Trump towers built in Russia, Sater was an FBI informant who had to work in Russia and now he's talking to a Ukrainian parliament member about peace talks with Russia.


And the "what polls" guy would like you to believe him and not The New York Times.

Edited by Iron Maiden - Yesterday at 11:49 pm
post #9914 of 9924
Real tough guy in a pink tie. Did his mom pick that out for him?
post #9915 of 9924

You would think given the amount of smoke already present, continual pressure in the form of lawsuits and investigations would have to break through with something that's going to land a major hit sooner rather than later. Further incentive to try and take back Congress and the Senate as if any was needed, even more investigations. You know, like into Obama and Clinton (both of them) only these will actually have major crimes to find.

post #9916 of 9924

Before bed, one more thing about Milo:


Share that thread with everyone.  


Even before that video about 13-year-olds was unearthed tonight, Milo published a picture of a naked 15-year-old girl in response to the now-adult woman fighting against 8chan's protection of child abusers.  CPAC chose him, despite these attacks.  What's another nutty thing to CPAC?


Matt Schlapp heads CPAC and he spent a good amount of Sunday defending Milo's keynote role before the video came out.  Unsurprisingly, he's been quiet ever since.  Here he was trying to defend Milo's inclusion:


Says the guy who spent years preventing Log Cabin Republicans from setting up a booth.


Like I said before, Milo pisses off the left.  That's the only prerequisite needed in the Trump era of the Republican Party.  

post #9917 of 9924
Originally Posted by Shan View Post

You would think given the amount of smoke already present, continual pressure in the form of lawsuits and investigations would have to break through with something that's going to land a major hit sooner rather than later. Further incentive to try and take back Congress and the Senate as if any was needed, even more investigations. You know, like into Obama and Clinton (both of them) only these will actually have major crimes to find.


I do feel confident that if there's something to be found, it WILL be found. Republicans may not be fulfilling their oversight duties, but plenty of others are taking up the slack, inside the government and out. This administration is incredibly shitty at keeping secrets.

post #9918 of 9924
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post


I do feel confident that if there's something to be found, it WILL be found. Republicans may not be fulfilling their oversight duties, but plenty of others are taking up the slack, inside the government and out. This administration is incredibly shitty at keeping secrets.

​I guess whenever it is the Democrats do take back the Senate and Congress, no matter when that is, they can launch as many investigations as possible into as many things as possible. It'll be both fascinating and well deserved for everyone under the microscope. I really hope they don't let the opportunity pass like they did with the last administration that should have gotten this treatment because somehow, this lot is even worse as incredible as this may seem.

post #9919 of 9924
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post

A video has unearthed where Milo Yiannopoulos advocates for legal sex with 13-year-olds:


CPAC, you know how to pick 'em!  


CPAC has been trying to defend Yiannopoulos' keynote role by standing behind a "free speech" mantra, and I think many of the leaders (who didn't feel blindsided by the pick) are going to have an even harder time standing by that now.


Conservatives, it didn't need to be this way.  You didn't need to normalize Yiannopoulos and his views.  You did.  Now, you own it.  Swim in your shit.

You know it's interesting because George Takei had a story like that. When he was 12 he had sex with a camp counselor in his 20's and he said he didn't think he was a victim, he enjoyed it. Now I think both George and Milo are denying the truth to themselves but I wonder if it helped shape their political careers. Like maybe it wasn't just his time in the internment camps that makes him so sympathetic to victims. Perhaps Milo's way of dealing with it was to deny victims exist at all and toughen up to all criticism so no one can hurt him again.

Edited by Waaaaaaaalt - Today at 5:22 am
post #9920 of 9924
You really do take pains to excuse these people during these conversations, Waaaaalt. It's something of a pattern I've noticed.
post #9921 of 9924
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

You really do take pains to excuse these people during these conversations, Waaaaaaaalt. It's something of a pattern I've noticed.

Well im interested in what makes people tick, I mean the guy was molested by his priest when he was young and unlike what he is now claiming I got the sense he was MUCH younger when it happened.


I guess you would have to define these people. I mean if it's someone saying something outrageous in humor then no I usually don't care and I will mostly defend that. When it's someone actually trying to get a message across I think it gets complicated. I will never try to censor them because I honestly do believe in free speech even if it's something I don't like. Milo is yet another person following in the steps of Rush and Coulter that have a thriving career pissing of liberals. I don't know if I need to be the newest person to yell FUCK THEM. I gave my thoughts on how to debate Milo and how he never should have gotten this much attention in the first place. 


But I also have a firm belief that we are really good at driving people away. That by focusing on the wrong things and overreacting we add to the people standing in Milo's line. But I never have been very good at getting my point across which is why for years I never dipped my toes in this side of the forum.


Also im paid to post here by those people.

post #9922 of 9924

Bye, Milo! 

post #9923 of 9924
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post

Bye, Milo! 

No way. He MIGHT get pulled from CPAC but we're stuck with this fucker till he dies of autoerotic asphyxiation in 20 years.
post #9924 of 9924

12 year olds, dude.

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