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DOCTOR STRANGE Post-Release - Page 15

post #701 of 730

The reveal of "IT WAS HYDRA ALL ALONG" really, really bugs me, too. One of the reasons Cap is my favorite superhero - particularly the way Evans plays him - is that he represents the best of America as an idea, including questioning authority or problems within American history/the American experiment. So it just feels wrong during the Toby Jones scene (a very cool scene aesthetically) to basically put the blame on America's foreign and domestic policy misadventures of the post-war, post-Cap era on a band of super-secret super-smart super villains. It feels like a betrayal of the character, because what makes Cap Cap is his ability to recognize America's mistakes. More than that, it feels like (pretention ahoy) a cultural absolution for American fuck-ups of the last fifty years. Vietnam? Hydra did it. Iranian coup? Hydra did it. Destabilizing Latin America? Hydra did it! Spying on MLK? Hydra! Which makes it even more annoying that they kept using "conspiracy thriller" comparisons, because those movies were in direct response to America not being the good guys anymore, specifically through the lens of Vietnam. 

 

I hear what you're saying about not expecting much out of these movies, though. I think that's eventually where I've wound up - I know not to go in expecting much, but just a good time, well-made. That's why I said I enjoyed Civil War and Doctor Strange more once I had some time between release and watching them/watching them again. I'm looking forward to Thor 3 and Guardians though. 

post #702 of 730

Totally valid criticism. And where WS tries to assuage this is the whole, it's all a semantic argument, there's no difference between Hydra and the U.S. But then we're presented with flat-out proof that Hydra is just a faceless death cult with very vague goals. What happens if they kill their millions of targets? 

 

On the flip side, our current administration has been infiltrated by white supremacists. There seems to be a rampant growth of bored, aimless youth that are embracing Neo-Nazism. If Hydra was actually given some sort of clear worldview I could buy it as representing the "secret masters", i.e. Illuminati that conspiracy theorists like to harp about. But they're just bad because they're bad.

 

Do they want money? Not really. Do they want power? Sure, but they already have it. Are they racists? No, not really. 

 

Now that would've at least given them an edge, if Project Oversight was mostly about culling minorities. Even if it was as simple as a screen showing urban areas being targeted. Cap in the comics, after all, fights racism all the time, with one of his big villains being the Hate-Monger and storylines about Madbombs being dropped on crowds and causing riots. 

post #703 of 730
I'm just mad that WINTER SOLDIER is a dreary, noisy slog that wastes Robert Redford.

DOC STRANGE, tho, is cool.
post #704 of 730

This is where we differ! The visceral aspect of WS, the action and the characters, is what I like so much. For that reason it doesn't bother me that it doesn't commit to its social commentary. 

 

Mister Doctor, like I said, is sticking with me. I think my second viewing will be fun.

post #705 of 730

Winter Soldier is awesome AF. BB is right!

post #706 of 730

Double validation!

post #707 of 730
I like the action in DOC STRANGE (colorful scenarios and a good sense of geography, with general clarity of movement). It's not Wachowski brilliance or anything, but it's the first Marvel movie to give us properly-conceived sequences, not just chains of isolated action beats.

I don't like the choppy action in WINTER SOLDIER. To put it mildly.

The only scene in WINTER SOLDIER I like is Computer Zola! So weird and awesome.
post #708 of 730

The entire causeway sequence in WS is so solid, with an emotional payoff. 

post #709 of 730

Mister Doc did do something amazing at the conceptual stage, and that's conceive magic in a much more tactile fashion. I worried, from 50 years of comic book abstractness, that it would all be Strange casting vague and ill-defined spells. 

 

But they took the Harry Potter route, which was basically turning wands into multi-purpose guns, and made magic a form of martial arts. That was a very clever bit of dramatizing. 

post #710 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

That was a very clever bit of dramatizing. 
It really was a very smart decision. And from what I understand, that was really all Derrickson's idea and a big reason that he got the gig in the first place.
post #711 of 730

Regarding the use of magic, I'm told that THE MAGICIANS, in its depiction of magic/magic users, takes a similar tactile approach, though theirs is more based on elaborate finger gestures akin to sleight of hand/con artists. 

http://mentalfloss.com/article/74302/using-finger-tutting-make-magic-happen-magicians

post #712 of 730
The hand gestures could be so silly, but somehow they sell it! Same with Scarlet Witch. In the comics she deals with "chaos magic," which is basically probability. So if there's a chance that the floor will collapse under you (like in an alternate reality, kind of like Bioshock: Infinite) she can cast a spell that will make it happen. But in the movies she has telekinesis channeled through pink energy.
post #713 of 730
I like em all. They're all awesome..
post #714 of 730
There isn't a Marvel movie I actively dislike it. Thor 2 is more of a non-entity, and even that has a few good jokes and the portal fight.
post #715 of 730
Thor 2, Iron Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk come the closest to being blaaah. But that's just in comparison to the others. I could watch any of those three right now, no problem. But they're still breezy colorful fun to me..
post #716 of 730
I really like Tim Roth in TIH, so I dig that movie.
post #717 of 730
I like his character more before he goes full Doomsday in BvS..
post #718 of 730
I've said this before, but, in terms of quality, there's not a world of difference between the best and worst of the MCU.
post #719 of 730
Hence....why I like em all..
post #720 of 730
I still hate 'em.

Except for STRANGE.
post #721 of 730
It takes all kinds..
post #722 of 730
Fraid is always so nice.
post #723 of 730
That's why I'm here smile.gif
post #724 of 730
The complaint of 'relative sameness' surrounding the Marvel product is valid. Whatever...these are Taco Bell movies. You go to Taco Bell because you've got a hankering for tacos and you know exactly what you're gonna get. Sometimes you get a particularly good taco, but they're all pretty interchangeable for the most part.
post #725 of 730

What Madness hath taken over this thread?!

Winter Soldier being a piece of shit because it's not a shot for shot remake of The Parallax View?! "Choppy Action sequences"?!? Da Fuk?

Some random pot shots:

1) We are shown and told several times what Hydra's aims are. Order, specifically order in favor of a worldwide Elite. (worldwide because the Soviets are part of it, though we only see the lower ranks).

When Nick Fury asks Sec Pierce to delay launch of the Insite Carriers, what's Pierce's response? "That will take a Senate Hearing, but I'll do it anyway, IF you get Iron Man to show up at my Niece's birthday party. And no fly bys: he's gotta mingle!". Later on Senator Sanders is complaining about the 23 year old "reporter" is screwing up his back while she's screwing him, and Sitwell is all "Ah hell ya".

Think about the corruption and privilege expressed. Not tied to any kind of merit (do you see that Senator?)

Privilege, that's what Hydra wants, and it wants to eliminate any threat to that privilege.

I could see how the people who come to lead Hydra, coming out of WWII, would value order above everything else, and would be willing to subvert peace short term for a longer term entrenched advantage, esp in their favor.

Why the lower ranks are so fanatical about Hydra, I admit I got nothing.

Oh and do you doubt for one second that if Insite existed, Trump wouldn't use it immediately? And that his opponents would do the same? (each side assuming of course that the other constitutes the danger)

2) I don't know how to even address the charge of "Choppy action sequences". I have a hard time with Shaky cam/blur cam action, but I could follow all the action in Winter Soldier. Plus I liked how each scene had it's own "character", like the Overpass sequence where Widow takes on the WS.

3) The Director's cited movies like Parallax View as INSPIRATION, they had no obligation to make an exact replica. They do hint at both Cap and Sam's alienation from the military, but they don't dwell on it, because those characters don't. Christ Cap visits Sam while he's moderating a counseling session for veterans suffering from PTSD! Sorry you didn't get the movie where Cap becomes an angry alcoholic and ends up walking into the sea.

4) Agree on Incredible Hulk. Tim Roth is great in that, but the CGI climax was a wet fart. Yet I don't know where else they could have gone.

Back to Dr Strange. It's the least interesting Marvel movie to date for me, aside from the Ditko inspired visuals and the climax/resolution. You can really see the Marketing Committee at work on this one "Oh, people dug the pop songs in GOTG, let's have Doctor Doctor be a Pop music fan too"!. Meh.

But I'm a soft touch for these movies, so I may revise upward on re watch.

post #726 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

The complaint of 'relative sameness' surrounding the Marvel product is valid. Whatever...these are Taco Bell movies. You go to Taco Bell because you've got a hankering for tacos and you know exactly what you're gonna get. Sometimes you get a particularly good taco, but they're all pretty interchangeable for the most part.

 


Surely not Taco Bell tho, Sizzler or Outback at the very least. 

post #727 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

I don't know how to even address the charge of "Choppy action sequences". I have a hard time with Shaky cam/blur cam action, but I could follow all the action in Winter Soldier.
I can mostly follow it fine. It isn't incomprehensible Megaton trash.

I still find the stylization irritating and inelegant and unnecessary.
post #728 of 730

Only Taco Bell will survive the franchise wars, though.

post #729 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


I can mostly follow it fine. It isn't incomprehensible Megaton trash.

I still find the stylization irritating and inelegant and unnecessary.

 

Can you expand on that? Was it the washed out look? The editing? 

post #730 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Can you expand on that? Was it the washed out look? The editing? 
The awkwardly-close shot compositions, the gratuitous and often sloppy quick-cuts between redundant camera angles, and the heavy framerate manipulation.

The endless reliance on dull, ugly settings of brick, concrete, pavement, and steel doesn't really help, either.
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