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DC Cinematic Universe Discussion - Page 31

post #1501 of 1905

A good idea! But haha, even Arkham Asylum has him visit a secret batcave INSIDE the Asylum. 

post #1502 of 1905
Honestly watching hobo Batman doesn't sound very interesting. Isn't he basically just a generic hero cop then? The whole secret batcave everywhere is ridiculous but it at least keeps him in the bat suit.
post #1503 of 1905

It's kind of like taking Bond and getting rid of the gadgets, the Bond girls, the decked-out cars, the over-the-top henchmen, the villains with physical deformities, et al. It sounds refreshing and new within the context of James Bond, but then you actually watch it and realize it's just Jason Bourne with an accent.

post #1504 of 1905

What I've been wanting to see from a Batman film is something that isn't explored very much in comics and I can only recall it being really addressed by Brian Azzarello (and vaguely by David Ayer channeling Azzarello in Suicide Squad), is in the absence (or greatly diminished influence) of traditional organized crime, who fills that vacuum? They reinvented The Penguin as a John Gotti / Al Capone type many, many years ago now, but if they just have to make another Batman movie, I'd like to see his rogues' gallery fill out those spaces. So instead of Batman showing up to stop some apocalyptic plot hatched by one or two of them at a time as it's largely been in the movies, you'll have characters like Penguin, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, The Riddler and so on, as supporting characters who have created their own unique niche in the criminal underworld and aren't always busted back to Arkham or Blackgate at the end of whatever adventure. This wouldn't necessarily work for characters who are less stable, more violent and therefore less conventional (Joker, Two-Face) but you can give certain characters core competencies and watch how they all interact with one another. 

 

I would be genuinely interested in someone looking at Goodfellas or The Godfather films or Scarface or whatever and saying, "Okay, so how does this work if Tommy De Vito and Tom Hagen are Killer Croc and Edward Nygma? How do these guys interact? Do they engage in the same illicit activities or maybe something more specialized and clandestine? What are the power structures?"

 

Now, someone really stupid is thinking: "You want a Batman movie to be like Goodfellas and Scarface?". No. It's the potential in the world-building that would be interesting. A scenario that isn't Legion of Doom, but isn't structured exactly like every other superhero film since the beginning of time either. That would be cool. 

post #1505 of 1905
So you're pretty much asking for BATMAN: NINE LIVES without the Elseworlds angle?
post #1506 of 1905
What I've always wanted is for these big, iconic superhero characters to receive the MORTE D'ARTHUR treatment.

Let a writer/artist team sketch out a true Batman "canon," compiling from the decades of Batman stories and rearranging it all into a single, coherent myth with a clear end for the character.
Edited by Agentsands77 - 2/5/17 at 2:14pm
post #1507 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

What I've always wanted is for these big, iconic superhero characters to receive the MORTE D'ARTHUR treatment.

Let a writer/artist team sketch our a true Batman "canon," compiling from the decades of Batman stories and rearranging it all into a single, coherent myth with a clear end for the character.

 

 

I actually had something like that in mind for an ongoing series. The basic concept is inspired by the end of The Dark Knight Rises but would take it several steps further and would frankly be something of an ongoing Elseworlds thing. The idea is that the series would start in 1939 w/ a 27-year-old Bruce Wayne and the first few story arcs (about 20-24 issues) would carry us to 1950-55 w/ Batman aging in real time. He'd die or retire or whatever, but then a protege (not necessarily Dick Grayson) would take over. This protege would have several story arcs of their own and his career as Batman would end in say 1970 and on to the next guy and the next guy until the series ends once it catches up to the current publication date. I would establish a rule that no Batman villain would appear in the series before the timeframe in which they made their first appearance. For example, the original Batman wouldn't face Poison Ivy or Ra's Al Ghul, because in the continuity of this hypothetical series, he would have ended his run before 1963 / 1971 and many of these villains either die, grow old or otherwise shift out of their roles for one reason or another. Also, Superman and Wonder Woman would appear, but seeing as how they either age very slowly or are effectively immortal, we'd see them start off as their 1938 / 1941 selves, but slowly evolve into their current forms with some differences here and there. They would only make a handful of guest appearances, but we'd see how they interact with each new version of Batman. 

post #1508 of 1905
I'd watch the shit out of that.
post #1509 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

What I've always wanted is for these big, iconic superhero characters to receive the MORTE D'ARTHUR treatment.

Let a writer/artist team sketch out a true Batman "canon," compiling from the decades of Batman stories and rearranging it all into a single, coherent myth with a clear end for the character.

I'd love that, and JJ's idea sounds awesome too. One of the best things about the Nolan trilogy is that it does function as an abbreviated version of that.
Edited by Schwartz - 2/6/17 at 2:37pm
post #1510 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 

 

 

I actually had something like that in mind for an ongoing series. The basic concept is inspired by the end of The Dark Knight Rises but would take it several steps further and would frankly be something of an ongoing Elseworlds thing. The idea is that the series would start in 1939 w/ a 27-year-old Bruce Wayne and the first few story arcs (about 20-24 issues) would carry us to 1950-55 w/ Batman aging in real time. He'd die or retire or whatever, but then a protege (not necessarily Dick Grayson) would take over. This protege would have several story arcs of their own and his career as Batman would end in say 1970 and on to the next guy and the next guy until the series ends once it catches up to the current publication date. I would establish a rule that no Batman villain would appear in the series before the timeframe in which they made their first appearance. For example, the original Batman wouldn't face Poison Ivy or Ra's Al Ghul, because in the continuity of this hypothetical series, he would have ended his run before 1963 / 1971 and many of these villains either die, grow old or otherwise shift out of their roles for one reason or another. Also, Superman and Wonder Woman would appear, but seeing as how they either age very slowly or are effectively immortal, we'd see them start off as their 1938 / 1941 selves, but slowly evolve into their current forms with some differences here and there. They would only make a handful of guest appearances, but we'd see how they interact with each new version of Batman. 

 

That's a great idea. So, no chance it will happen. 

 

There was a run of Batman comics where the Supervillains (including the Joker) were treated as more or less Gangsters with crazy costumes. The the Long Halloween was about the displacement/elimination of regular Mafia types by the Rogue's Gallery. 

post #1511 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

That's a great idea. So, no chance it will happen. 

There was a run of Batman comics where the Supervillains (including the Joker) were treated as more or less Gangsters with crazy costumes.
Yep. I mentioned it above. NINE LIVES. It's pretty good.
post #1512 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

Honestly watching hobo Batman doesn't sound very interesting. Isn't he basically just a generic hero cop then? The whole secret batcave everywhere is ridiculous but it at least keeps him in the bat suit.

Naah, I don't mean totally strip him of everything - he'd still be in costume swinging about on rooftops with a grappling gun, throwing batarangs etc... Basically prime comic book Batman, just cut off from the big Deus Ex Machina tech the movies seem to like throwing in. If anything, the more gadgets he gets in the movies, the more generic he gets, to the point he's interchangeable with Iron Man.
And, like JJ's idea, I'd want this to be in a Gotham full of established supercrooks running the mobs (Penguin, Harvey Dent etc) all out for a piece of him. Probably never going to happen though, so I'll just carry on fanwanking in my head!
post #1513 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

What I've always wanted is for these big, iconic superhero characters to receive the MORTE D'ARTHUR treatment.

Let a writer/artist team sketch out a true Batman "canon," compiling from the decades of Batman stories and rearranging it all into a single, coherent myth with a clear end for the character.


This is probably too big and ambitious to anyone to ever attempt it, but if I was ever in a position to do so at DC, I'd create something a little similar to the Ultimates line at Marvel, but with a set beginning, middle, and end-point - specifically for that idea of creating the true "canon" and ending for Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, the Justice League, all of it. Give it that full myth-cycle retelling a la the Greek or Norse canon or, as you say, the MORTE D'ARTHUR treatment.

post #1514 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

That's a great idea. So, no chance it will happen. 

There was a run of Batman comics where the Supervillains (including the Joker) were treated as more or less Gangsters with crazy costumes. The the Long Halloween was about the displacement/elimination of regular Mafia types by the Rogue's Gallery. 

I figure the only cheat I'd get away with would be Ra's Al Ghul. If he's immortal, then I'd least have to imply his presence pre-1971, but hold back on naming and showing him until we hit that date. At that point I could hypothetically keep him until the end of the series along with Superman and Wonder Woman.
post #1515 of 1905
Quote:
Yeah, in the comics he does sponsor a lot of social welfare and education programs, makes an effort to hire those on the lower end of the social strata (including redeemed ex-cons). There's a pretty great issue (I think from the B:TAS tie-in comic?) that's all about a day in the life of Bruce Wayne, where we see how his actions as Bruce help people throughout the city.

 

Ah, neat! I wouldn't really expect it to get touched on in the films (I mean, I'd watch a small-scale Wayne Enterprises workplace drama about former criminals trying to rebuilt their lives through meaningful employment but god knows why they'd actually make that movie). I like the idea of a multi-pronged approach to Gotham City's entrenched crime problem, anyway.


 

Quote:

But Sims argues that Bruce does those things. It's just that Gotham City is JUST THAT BAD. For all of the good that Bruce Wayne does, the city itself balances the scales. Hence why Batman is a necessity.

 

 

Thanks for the link - I'll check it out. 

post #1516 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


I figure the only cheat I'd get away with would be Ra's Al Ghul. If he's immortal, then I'd least have to imply his presence pre-1971, but hold back on naming and showing him until we hit that date. At that point I could hypothetically keep him until the end of the series along with Superman and Wonder Woman.

 

Well Al Ghul always tried to stay in the shadows, plus you could have Batman meet and defeat his minions, maybe suspecting someone behind the scenes but only actually meeting him in 1971.

post #1517 of 1905

I'd probably use the death of the second Batman in 1970 as a chapter break w/ the newly minted third Batman putting together that Ra's Al Ghul has been around since at least Bruce Wayne's day but has opted to remain behind the scenes (ala The Final Problem). 

post #1518 of 1905
It would be wonderful if any other Superhero from DC could attain any kind of popularity. Because at this point Batman just needs a rest. Enough with recycling him, get fucking Dr Fate or some other garbo out there, any thing but more Batman. God even Cyborg, anything but the 10000th "re-imagining" of Batman, the character is like a fucking gypsy curse at this point.
post #1519 of 1905

We could have the Cyborg Family! 


Cyborg Girl. 

 

Cyborg WOMAN!

 

Cyborg Boy

 

Cyborg Dog!

post #1520 of 1905
Not getting the Cyborg hate at all. He's a second tier character but the concept is decent enough.
post #1521 of 1905
I don't hate Cyborg, but he's always felt like a character who was created on the 25th hour of a publication deadline. He's an incredibly bland creation.
post #1522 of 1905
Cyborg fucking blows donkey dick.

Johnny, something along the lines of what you're talking about was done by John Byrne across three mini-series called Generations. They're pretty good, though do get a bit out there by the end.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_%26_Batman:_Generations
post #1523 of 1905
Goddamn it. Well, it's not like I was ever going to bring it to DC anyway. It's just a fanwank exercise.
post #1524 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Cyborg fucking blows donkey dick.


post #1525 of 1905
Holy shit, kill it with fire.
post #1526 of 1905
Is that Cyborg Madea?
post #1527 of 1905
Teen Titans Go! Cyborg is the only good Cyborg.
post #1528 of 1905
I hate all Cyborgs.

I prefer androids.
post #1529 of 1905
How many minutes do you think it took George Perez to get this down on paper?




Had to be at least 8 minus a bathroom break. I think Black Panther might very well be the only popular black superhero who looks cool and all it is is a dude in a catsuit.
post #1530 of 1905
I kind of always liked the way Deathlok looked.
post #1531 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

Teen Titans Go! Cyborg is the only good Cyborg.

Maybe so, with the slightly more serious version from the first cartoon... There was nothing wrong, really, with the character in the Wolfman/Perez comics-- there just wasn't much to him ("Hey, Marv, I got this idea for a cyborg character! He's called Cyborg!"). Mostly harmless.

I'm sure he'll turn out to be super cool under the hand of Visionary Director Zack Snyder, though. Just look what he did for Superman!
post #1532 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

I kind of always liked the way Deathlok looked.

Like a zombie version of Cyborg and two additional primary colors?
post #1533 of 1905
And don't forget a total rip off of Iron Maiden's "Somewhere In Time" album cover.
post #1534 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Like a zombie version of Cyborg and two additional primary colors?

Well, when we're critiquing superhero appearance, the addition of primary colors is about as significant a shift as there can be.

And I'm not really familiar with the character, but isn't Cyborg already the zombie version of Cyborg?
post #1535 of 1905
That album came out in 1986, Deathlok first appeared in 1974.
post #1536 of 1905
I like Deathlok's look, too. He appeals to my inner 10-year-old.
post #1537 of 1905
You people have no standards!

No, it's fine, I just don't respond to the whole tooled up, metal arm / cyber eye thing that was hot for so many years. It got even worse after Cameron unleashed Aliens on the world and suddenly every other also-ran comic book character looked like they were bitten by a radioactive military surplus outlet.
post #1538 of 1905

It's unfortunate, but a lot of solo black characters (the Falcon, Black Lightning, Cyborg) have horrendous looks. Most were concocted during the blaxploitation days and have never escaped that theme.

 

EXCEPT for Misty Knight, who looks badass:

 

 

The best-looking costumes for black characters tend to be the legacy costumes. Miles Spider-Man, Sam Captain America, Stewart GL, etc. 

 

Even the coolest black guy out there, Luke Cage, is just a dude in a T-shirt and jeans.

post #1539 of 1905

Man, so glad we have Black Panther.

post #1540 of 1905

Y'all motherfuckers forgetting someone...

 

 

 

post #1541 of 1905
Remember when Goyer gave him a burgundy mock turtleneck to wear?
post #1542 of 1905

And he pulled it off!

 

Such is the power of Snipes. 

post #1543 of 1905
I did forget about Blade. But his movie look is where it's at, his original comic book getup was ridiculous.
post #1544 of 1905
"Motherfuck them, they forgot about Blade"
post #1545 of 1905

Haven't seen it yet, but The LEGO Batman Movie's treatment of Robin has me questioning if the character can ever be pulled off in live action again.

 

In terms of attempts, the early conceptions in Batman '89 seemed to be the most faithful. Although who knows what the costume would have looked like through Burton's lens.

 

The almost-Robin in Batman Returns would've been played by a 19-year-old Marlan Wayans. As far as I remember from script drafts he wouldn't have been in costume but would just be a mechanic named Robin helping Batman repair the Batmobile. Again, who knows what the costume might've looked like in a hypothetical Batman 3, directed by Burton or not.

 

In Batman Forever he's played by Chris O'Donnell, who would've been 24 or so when filming. The character seems to be 17, because he's riding a motorcycle but is young enough that he still legally needs a guardian. The costume finally makes an appearance, but as molded rubber and with muted colors.

 

Batman & Robin pretty much departs from Robin altogether, portraying him as Nightwing in costume and personality.

 

"Robin" in Nolan's trilogy is a cop that is never seen in costume.

 

And now in the DCEU he's dead. And although the costume in that case appears to be pretty accurate, it's the Arkham video games route of being armor and I can't tell if the muted colors are what the costume actually was (if so, holy shit why?) or if it was burned or something by the Joker? A friend of mine swears Batman bronzed it, to which I say...no.

 

So here comes LEGO Batman basically proving the character can be a lot of fun, but only as a joke. If Robin was even attempted in The Batman, would it be possibly for him to be a "kid" (like a 15-year-old)? Could his costume ever be semi-bright, like Captain America's slightly muted red, white and blues? And can he crack jokes, or are we destined for uber-serious Damian Wayne?

 

It's just really fascinating how if you asked someone on the street to play word association and said Batman, I bet they'd blurt out Robin pretty quick. And yet no one can seem to make him work onscreen.  

post #1546 of 1905
The batman animated series version of dick Grayson, who's got this assassins creed thing going on would absolutely work.

Bruce is such a damn sour puss and Dick is such a fun smartass. He would be a total scene stealer.

In an alternate reality DC movie universe Dick and Tim and Damien and Jason show up, if only for cameos now and then. They're just working away in Gotham.
post #1547 of 1905

But even B:TAS skipped over, presumably, Dick's early tenure as Robin and started with him in college. There's a flashback episode of him coming to live with Bruce and finding out he's Batman, but we never see him in costume. It feels like every other version that's afraid to go all-out. But then ironically in the later version of B:TAS, Tim Drake (who is more like Jason Todd) is a kid, but his costume's colors are muted.

 

Always compromises.

post #1548 of 1905
As you should.

You cannot, without an extremely specific comic or extremely disturbing tone, have live action Robin as a child anymore.
post #1549 of 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

As you should.

You cannot, without an extremely specific comic or extremely disturbing tone, have live action Robin as a child anymore.

 

The costume has to be changed for live action as well. It's really, really silly.

post #1550 of 1905

Then here's the question: how young can Robin be, and what would the costume look like?

 

Again I think if the MCU can pull off Tony Stark recruiting what's supposed to be a 15-year-old Spider-Man, DCEU can do a mid-teens Robin. Muted colors for the costume, sure, but he (or she) has to be lighter in some way.

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